Actually, no. I don’t think race pipes belong on the street. Those are your words, not mine.

What I was, and have been saying, Is that Honda not putting aesthetic thought into an exhaust because they expect people to change it, is dumb and old world thinking.

You may believe that changing a pipe will always be legal but the legislative winds show otherwise.

Also, need I point out that it’s not an environmentally friendly thought process either?

Actually, no. I don’t think race pipes belong on the street. Those are your words, not mine.

What I was, and have been saying, Is that Honda not putting aesthetic thought into an exhaust because they expect people to change it, is dumb and old world thinking.

You may believe that changing a pipe will always be legal but the legislative winds show otherwise.

Actually, no. I don’t think race pipes belong on the street. Those are your words, not mine.

What I was, and have been saying, Is that Honda not putting aesthetic thought into an exhaust because they expect people to change it, is dumb and old world thinking.

You may believe that changing a pipe will always be legal but the legislative winds show otherwise.

“Bike modifications that lead to increased emissions ‘likely to be outlawed’”

The article has been updated to make it clear that you are not limited to OEM parts. The source material is clear that you are not limited to OEM parts.

You seem to be hung up on the fact that fitting illegal race exhausts to bikes might become more difficult. Tough luck – follow the law and pick a road legal exhaust.

Yes, I’m imagining the headline Modifying your bike could be made illegal: New plans that could make fitting non-OEM parts a crime, that is printed on that page.

I’ve seen that a couple of years back and as much as I like the general lines of the bike, that is basically just a glorified windscreen (like the old Ducati Monster used to have), not a half-fairing. It’s also just a special edition, not a proper model or standalone variant.

It’s a free country. At least the state I live in is. I don’t care if you don’t like my exhaust. You probably do something I don’t like. The difference is I won’t try to ban you from doing it.

First you say:
“AFA pipes always being illegal, not the case. I’ve been working at dealerships and in the industry since the mid 80’s. You could legally sell a pipe and jet kit then.”

Now it is:
The shop I worked at in Chicago never read the Clean Air Act. Neither did any other shop I knew of. You really believe that the EPA was enforcing that?

Seems you know selling race exhausts for road use has always been illegal – just not enforced much.

Some shops did care. Even 20 years ago the Aprilia shop made my brother remove the plate holder, turn signals, mirrors, tape the lights, and trailer the bike to the shop in order to install a race pipe and ECU tune. Race parts were for track prepped bikes only.

I don’t think most manufacturers expect their customer to just throw away the exhaust. That said, there will always be aftermarket exhausts as long as there are internal combustion motorcycles. We are just starting to finally crack down on the illegal ones. Start enforcing the law and the aftermarket will shift to legal products and end the wink, wink – competition use only game.

No need. I read the full article – the title is accurate.
“Bike modifications that lead to increased emissions ‘likely to be outlawed’”

That is also very clear from the source document.

Specifically, we would look to create:a specific offence for supplying, installing and/or advertising, a ‘tampering product’ for a vehicle or NRMM – this would apply where a principal effect of the product is to bypass, defeat, reduce the effectiveness of or render inoperative a system, part or component (the product may be a physical part or component, hardware and/or software)

A road legal exhaust that does not increase air or noise pollution is not tampering.

https://www.gov.uk/government/consultations/future-of-transport-regulatory-review-modernising-vehicle-standards/future-of-transport-regulatory-review-modernising-vehicle-standards#tackling-tampering

So CARB is adopting Euro V – just like I said. The only bit of new information there from the last presentation I saw was the 2024 model year implementation. Thanks for the link.

Page 7 shows why CARB is looking to adopt Euro V. California only registered 52K motorcycles in 2018. The rest of the USA was only 392K. Meanwhile the EU registered 1.3 million new motorcycles. (and that was before Japan adopted Euro regulations as part of the EU – Japan trade agreement)

It is better for all involved for CARB to just adopt EU standards than to try to re-invent the wheel and make their own standard. Manufacturers will be dancing a jig at the thought of fewer regulator standards to meet.

Reread the article. The point is any mod to to emissions system would be Illegal

https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/4dc091f88358e0458c87a521a8b245ed746827c7b47b1201cac9672495ff50b2.jpg Funny, I see this https://ww2.arb.ca.gov/sites/default/files/2020-11/November%202020%20CARB%20ONMC%20Workshop.pdf

Yes. The shop I worked at in Chicago never read the Clean Air Act. Neither did any other shop I knew of. You really believe that the EPA was enforcing that?

Good luck in fantasyland

My point is that if a manufacturer assumes you’ll just be able to change the exhaust (also, I was referring to the chrome looking cat enclosure too) that’s not paying attention to current trends.

If you want to argue micro points, go ahead. You’re still ignoring the signs.

The sport of riding motorcycles of course. The biggest reason the general public hates motorcyclists is the jackasses that put illegal race exhausts on their road bikes. The sooner the loud bikes get off the street the better or we may start seeing riding bans here in the USA like they are seeing in the EU and UK.

Anyone that can’t enjoy riding without pissing off their neighbors needs to grow up. I’m all for aftermarket exhausts – the legal ones at least.

Have tried this engine yet? It’s got more character, better sound and vibes then any triple or four I’ve tried (a lot of them).

https://www.bennetts.co.uk/bikesocial/reviews/bikes/yamaha/2017-yamaha-xsr900-abarth

You keep saying aftermarket exhausts being banned would be “great for the sport”. What sport? Transportation?

I hate quiet exhausts. If your exhaust is quiet, I think your bike sucks. I think quiet exhausts are “bad for the sport”. I don’t know what sport we’re talking about but I don’t like them.

Unless “RaCiNg”, right? <3 ;)

If the euro-nannies (TUV) get their way, you won’t even have a choice of tyres or brake pads. :-(

And this is where it goes.
https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/3a0ad9c8e435dd795d1cc097bc3842c960db10f58ef799bc3cbd7db74494feec.png

I guess your shop owner never read the Clean Air Act then. It is very clear on emissions tampering and they fines for violating it. You can find the relevant law here: Title II of the Clean Air Act and regulations at 40 C. F. R. Parts 85, 86, 88 through 94, 600, and 1033 through 1068. If your shop was installing off-road only exhausts on road bikes they were in clear violation of federal law. Just because they were never caught and fined doesn’t mean what they were doing was legal.

Yes, aftermarket manufacturers and shops have been using the “wink, wink” offroad use BS to sell pipes, jet kits, and EFI tuners for decades. Those parts are legal to sell for offroad use – but illegal to install in a road bike. If cops start cracking down on riders that wink wink method goes away – which would be great for our sport.

No, the writing isn’t on the wall that aftermarket pipes are on the way out. The writing is on the wall that ILLEGAL aftermarket pipes might be on the way out – which is great for the sport. There is nothing that prevents companies from selling legal aftermarket exhausts or other performance parts. They would just have to test them and certify that those parts meet emission standards when installed on the model they are sold for. Harley already does that – they clearly label which of their Screaming Eagle parts are road legal and which ones are not.

Yes, that would be something to rejoice. The UK may start cracking down on illegal exhausts that produce more air pollution and noise pollution.

Motorcyclist would still be free to fit legal aftermarket exhaust certified to meet emission standards. None of this is new – the UK is just going to start enforcing the law. There are already a bunch of road legal exhausts for sale in the EU. Just hop over to Akrapovic for some examples – they clearly point out the road legal vs race systems.

What Jason’s essentially telling you is that pipe swaps have already been illegal for decades, but that nobody’s ever really given a damn and likely never will, so stop worrying about it. They’ll ban ICE bikes whole-cloth long before they enforce exhaust regulations in any way that matters.

You say the law doesn’t allow slip-ons and then say to show you an approved full-system. Move the goal post much? There is no shortage of CARB slip-ons. There is not technical reason to not have CARB legal full systems. It is simply a matter of economics.

Akrapovic used to sell full systems – don’t know if they still do. Not much point when the factory systems are already optimized to the limit of legality. With the Akrapovic systems you were paying $2K to save a couple pounds and add a couple horsepower.

There is no 2035 ban. There is an executive order telling CARB to write proposals of how to get to zero emissions for cars by 2035. It makes absolutely no mention of on-road motorcycles which is it’s own class of vehicle.